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Shabbos dinner menus - Karen's Musings
Random Rambling
Shabbos dinner menus
I'm going to start keeping a log of what I make for shabbos dinners because I'm having a really hard time keeping track and I don't like repeating main courses too often.

So, right.

Three weeks ago we had:
Guests: Daniel and Stevie
Gefilte Fish Patties
Tofu Dip
Zomick's Challah
Craisin Salad
Garlic Roasted Chicken with stuffing
Stuffed mushrooms
Some sort of veggie (can't remember)
Pineapple Upside-Down Cake for dessert (needed to be gooey-er. Also think it would be good with a liqueur of some sort or bourbon... definitely not my favorite cake overall b/c too sweet for moi, but I liked making it)

I also feel like we maybe had something before the fish... maybe fruit?

Two weeks ago I had:
Guests: Felds, Jo & Cary (7, including us and including Aaron)
Gefilte Fish Patties
Tofu Dip
Zomick's Challah
Salad with red peppers, cashews, and celery dressing
Lynne's Herbed Chicken (with walnuts, raisins, apples, garlic etc.)
(rice which never made it to the table)
Broccoli Kugel (this came out too thin, way too salty, and way too peppery. Otherwise tasty and must try again altering the recipe and the size pan I use)
Tomato Basil Salad
Baklava for dessert

Last week we had:
Guests: Glazers (4, including us, but not including the kids since they didn't so much eat my food)
Gefilte Fish Patties
Tofu Dip
Challah swiped from Feld's freezer
Same Celery salad as previous week.
Short Ribs
Rice (which actually MADE it to the table)
Asparagus (served cold so that they didn't over-cook)
Store-bought babka for dessert.

This week (tomorrow) we'll have (if all goes according to plan):
Guests: Felds, Jo & Cary (7 total, including us and the halfling)
Gefilte Fish Patties (unless I get inspired to make salmon cakes)
Tofu Dip
Challah (must buy)
Plain boring Salad (been a while since we've done a regular boring salad)
Broccoli (might change my mind on the broccoli...too hard to keep warm)
Something for dessert but I have no idea what.

That really doesn't seem like enough. I think maybe I'll have to do a carrot salad or something. Jo suggested roasted peppers. I'll have to think on that. I'm not sure that roasted peppers go really well with meatballs. Also not sure how I feel about investing that kind of time this week, since I don't have all evening tonight and I only have a couple hours tomorrow.

Current Mood: accomplished accomplished

25 comments or Leave a comment
lionsaoi From: lionsaoi Date: August 26th, 2004 10:11 am (UTC) (Link)
Maybe a silly question, but how can you serve fish and chicken in the same meal?

(Or, maybe this means my theory was right! I've had people tell me that chicken=meat, which I thought was silly. After all, when's the last time you had "chicken milk"? You can't cook a chicken in its mother's milk... don't mind me.)
estherchaya From: estherchaya Date: August 26th, 2004 10:23 am (UTC) (Link)
not a silly question at all. Fish is served as a first course (with any kind of meat including chicken). The plates and utensils used for the fish course are all removed from the table before meat is served. People have different minhagim (customs), but many people eat a piece of challah in between, or drink alcohol (scotch is a good choice) in between. One of the people coming this Friday has it as his custom to drink whiskey or other alcohol between fish and meat courses. This is fine for me, because we have a lovely Scotch that doesn't get used enough.

As for your theory that chicken isn't meat... well, you're not the first one to have the theory that since you can't cook a chicken in its mothers milk, it doesn't have the prohibition that beef (or other meat) has against serving/cooking it with dairy products. There's (I believe) a minority opinion in the Talmud that chicken can't be subjected to the meat/dairy prohibition. But it lost out. If I'm not mistaken (and I very well could be) it was partly for a maris ayin reason (maris ayin is effectively "the appearance of transgression" though that's probably a lousy translation).

However despite the myriad of good reasons to believe that chicken should be exempt from the prohibition against cooking it with dairy, it is not. The halacha is that chicken gets treated as meat.
estherchaya From: estherchaya Date: August 26th, 2004 10:23 am (UTC) (Link)
I'll add that though I can't explain it, there are some Sephardim who won't serve fish with dairy either. But I think they're just silly.
beaniekins From: beaniekins Date: August 26th, 2004 11:03 am (UTC) (Link)
Chabad also goes by that minhag.
estherchaya From: estherchaya Date: August 26th, 2004 11:04 am (UTC) (Link)
well, I don't think Chabad is silly. Just the sephardim. ;)
beaniekins From: beaniekins Date: August 26th, 2004 11:06 am (UTC) (Link)
LOL Well, considering Chabad and sephardim share many minhagim I'm not sure where that leaves it.
estherchaya From: estherchaya Date: August 26th, 2004 11:07 am (UTC) (Link)
it leaves it at Chabad not being silly and Sephardim being silly.

jeannegrrl From: jeannegrrl Date: August 26th, 2004 05:17 pm (UTC) (Link)
Hey now... Not that I was actually raised *observing* any Sephardic customs, but them's fightin' words! ;-)

(for those going "huh?" my maiden name's Sarfaty)
estherchaya From: estherchaya Date: August 26th, 2004 09:17 pm (UTC) (Link)
tee hee.

I was, of course, joking.
jeannegrrl From: jeannegrrl Date: August 27th, 2004 04:50 am (UTC) (Link)
of course! :-)
lionsaoi From: lionsaoi Date: August 26th, 2004 11:26 am (UTC) (Link)
Hmm... does the alcohol thing work for any food? For instance, could I serve an appetizer with cheese and then have a little break with some bread and alcohol. Then, serve meat courses?

Kashrut (sp?) laws are confusing!

I've also been thinking about the questions you sent me about kashering and living kosher. Honestly, I'm just a little reluctant and, it feels a little isolating. One thing at a time. (at least for right now.)

I've been a little sad about the fact I don't have anyone to celebrate Rosh Hashanah or Yom Kippur with. And, I'm not quite certain how I'm going to get High Holiday tickets, since I'm not a member of any synogue. (And, that's been a double edged sword -- I'm waiting to talk to a rabbi at the temple I like because I know it's right before holidays and he'll be really busy.)

I think I think too much.
estherchaya From: estherchaya Date: August 26th, 2004 11:34 am (UTC) (Link)
You're more than welcome to fly to MD and celebrate the holidays with moi. But I'm guessing that's not an option.

As for getting tickets...call the synagogue administrator and ask about it. Otherwise, try Chabad or college services (hillel)

As for the alcohol thing...

No, it doesn't work for any food. Lemme email you a longer, more-in-depth answer. Might take me a day or three.
cellio From: cellio Date: August 26th, 2004 12:13 pm (UTC) (Link)
Hmm... does the alcohol thing work for any food?

Not really. It works here because separation between fish and meat is "weaker" (being minhag) than separation between meat and milk, so some leniency is permitted that isn't permitted for the stronger case. How you get which specific leniency is a question for a rabbi.

You can eat meat soon after certain dairy, but: the dairy must not involve substantial bits like hard cheese, and you have to treat it like separate meals (dishes, blessings/bentching, etc). You are also, I believe, supposed to brush your teeth or at least rinse your mouth out, which suggests a genesis for the whisky custom with fish.

You can't eat dairy after meat until your waiting period expires. I don't know why meat after liquid milk is ok but dairy after chicken broth isn't, but it's not.

This is just kibbitzing, of course, not a ruling.
From: gittygiggles Date: August 26th, 2004 10:52 am (UTC) (Link)
whats zomicks challah?
estherchaya From: estherchaya Date: August 26th, 2004 10:54 am (UTC) (Link)
Zomick's is a bakery in NY (in the five towns, I think). Zomick's challah is challah that came from there. There are a couple places in Silver Spring that import it once a week.
From: gittygiggles Date: August 26th, 2004 11:01 am (UTC) (Link)
is it better than shmells/parisers/goldmans etc?
estherchaya From: estherchaya Date: August 26th, 2004 11:06 am (UTC) (Link)
depends on what you're looking for from Challah.

I'm not a fan of schmell's. I find Parisers is sometimes amazing and sometimes so-so, and I've never had goldman's. You're forgetting that I'm not a Baltimore person, so you're giving me points of reference that I can't really do much with. I really can only compare the Zomick's to Shalom's, Koshermart, and Kosher Pastry Oven (as well as various versions of homemade). As it happens, I have a preference for Zomick's.
From: gittygiggles Date: August 26th, 2004 11:10 am (UTC) (Link)
i've never had any challah from ss. :)

i've never heard of zomicks....so it sparked my interest. i wonder fi they sell it in baltimore?
estherchaya From: estherchaya Date: August 26th, 2004 11:12 am (UTC) (Link)
I have no idea if they sell it in Baltimore. I've never seen it there, but then again...I've never never looked.
estherchaya From: estherchaya Date: August 26th, 2004 12:09 pm (UTC) (Link)
oops. don't know how two nevers ended up in this sentence.
beaniekins From: beaniekins Date: August 26th, 2004 12:15 pm (UTC) (Link)
When you get a chance, I'd love a recipe for that garlic chicken with stuffing mentioned. Sounds delish.

P.S. Check me out with all the comments today!
estherchaya From: estherchaya Date: August 26th, 2004 12:18 pm (UTC) (Link)
er... recipe? Sheesh. That's asking a lot. I don't USE recipes most of the time!
beaniekins From: beaniekins Date: August 26th, 2004 01:23 pm (UTC) (Link)
Well, a general idea? Ingredients? Is it any more involved than mincing some garlic cloves and popping it in the oven? What about the stuffing? What do you use? I don't need exact amounts, just a vague outline.
estherchaya From: estherchaya Date: August 26th, 2004 09:25 pm (UTC) (Link)
buy a whole chicken. Rinse it well and pat it dry. With a very sharp knife, cut a slit into the chicken breast and slide in a clove (or half a clove) of garlic. Do this several times until you have as many as you want (for a small, chicken I probably put 6-8 cloves of garlic. For turkey or turkey breast, probably at least a dozen). Rub the chicken skin with olive oil. Season with salt, pepper, garlic powder (optional), onion powder (optional) and paprika (this gives it a lovely golden color). You can rub some of the seasonings under the skin too, for an especially tasty chicken. Rosemary and other herbs work well also. Pop it in the oven and roast until the juices run clear. That's without stuffing.

The stuffing is a little more tricky to put a recipe to. First you need bread cubes that you dry out in the oven (or you can sometimes find them in the store, particularly around yomim tovim). Sautee onions, mushrooms, celery and other stuff in oil. when onions and celery are translucent, add some diced apple and/or raisins, plus some chopped nuts (walnuts or pecans work best). Cook just until the apples are a little bit soft. Toss in the bread cubes and mix well. Wet down the mixture with chicken broth (or vegetable broth) and mix well. Then either stuff it in the chicken (the chicken will take longer to cook if it's stuffed and you don't want to stuff too tightly) or just put the stuffing in a pan and bake. This also works with farfel for a farfel stuffing. With the farfel, though, you want to mix it into the onion mixture a little longer and let it cook slightly. Otherwise, it'll get gluey and mushy when you add the chicken broth.

Does that help?
jonbaker From: jonbaker Date: August 27th, 2004 07:05 am (UTC) (Link)

Broccoli for Shabbat dinner

We do cold broccoli a lot. Cook it ahead of time, marinate it with some
salad dressing in the fridge, serve cold. Or, if you're leaving the oven on, as we do in the winter, put a pack of frozen veg in a covered pan, put that in the oven just before candlelighting, and by time you eat dinner, they'll have thawed out and gotten warm, but generally not overcooked. You may need to experiment with the time.

25 comments or Leave a comment