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dealing - Karen's Musings
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estherchaya
estherchaya
dealing
Thanks for everyone's kind thoughts in my last post. I'd respond to each and every one of them individually, but I'm not sure I have the emotional energy. So I will just say the following to all of you:

I'm really (oddly) okay. A few times today my eyes have welled up, but I'm really okay. I had five minutes of hysteria in the hospital when I realized I was having a miscarriage and by the time the doctor actually said the word, I was okay. Not in the "this doesn't hurt a bit" kind of okay, but okay as in I knew what was going on, I expected to hear the words, I wasn't surprised.

I'm a little annoyed because now everything's on hold, but that's part of life. And I'm ticked off because dammit, last week I saw actual fingers and toes on the ultrasound and there was a heartbeat. But on the other hand, I mean, really, do I wish I hadn't seen that? Not really. I just wish there'd been more.

But it happens. And hopefully there will be answers at some point. But it does happen. Hopefully just once, right?

Current Mood: sad sad

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Comments
pocketnaomi From: pocketnaomi Date: October 10th, 2006 08:27 pm (UTC) (Link)
Hopefully just once. I miscarried, and the very next cycle I conceived JJ. While you probably have to wait a little longer for physical healing (I was only at six weeks, and I didn't have to have a D&C), may you have as easy a time and good a result as I did when you can try again.
estherchaya From: estherchaya Date: October 12th, 2006 06:08 pm (UTC) (Link)
I have little doubt that the Shady Hell will want me to wait several cycles before starting again, which will conveniently allow time for a variety of tests to be completed to make sure that the miscarriage was just bad luck and not bad genetics. Meanwhile, I wait.
pocketnaomi From: pocketnaomi Date: October 12th, 2006 06:44 pm (UTC) (Link)
They wanted me to wait, but they didn't enforce the matter. But it was a very different situation -- my miscarriage was much earlier, much less damaging, and there was almost no doubt about why it happened. Just one of the one-in-four or whatever it is which don't make it long enough that I would have even known I was pregnant if I hadn't tested. In retrospect, it was *still* a bad idea for me to try again so soon; part of why I had quite as rough a pregnancy as I did was that I went into it with little in the way of strength or stability reserves. But I was bullheaded and they let me.

Your way makes more sense.
zis770 From: zis770 Date: October 10th, 2006 08:41 pm (UTC) (Link)
oh no! :( I'm so sorry. Hashem should give you a nechama
estherchaya From: estherchaya Date: October 12th, 2006 06:09 pm (UTC) (Link)
Thanks. I'm okay, just shocked and in limbo.
From: have_inner_lady Date: October 10th, 2006 10:12 pm (UTC) (Link)
Yes. Hopefully just once.

As you say you are dealing okay, may I someday know: Does the fact that you can get pregnant put you in a potentially better scenario than you were before?
estherchaya From: estherchaya Date: October 11th, 2006 12:02 am (UTC) (Link)
The likely answer to that question is yes. But it depends on what they find when they complete the genetic analysis of the fetus. For me to have miscarried this late it was likely either a genetic abnormality or it was a uterine abnormality. If the former (more likely), then yes, the fact that I was able to make it through my first trimester says a lot. If the latter (less likely given all the tests done in a standard fertility workup which probably would have caught a uterine abnormality), then it could conceivably mean that there isn't anything to be done. But that's unlikely.

So yeah... the fact that I got pregnant in the first place is one positive sign. The fact that I got this far is a far more positive sign. They are all pieces of the puzzle that is my infertile self.
(Deleted comment)
From: (Anonymous) Date: October 11th, 2006 02:46 pm (UTC) (Link)
Of course it doesn't. Getting pregnant only with the aid of medical intervention after four years of trying does not erase an infertility diagnosis. If I got pregnant easily and had 5 miscarriages in my second trimester, I would still be diagnosed with a form of infertility. Having gotten pregnant doesn't change the fact that I have a fertility deficit. What it does is show that under the right set of circumstances, with proper medical intervention, I can conceive a child who may or may not have ever been viable.

My identity hasn't changed, even if I end up with more pieces to the puzzle.
estherchaya From: estherchaya Date: October 11th, 2006 03:01 pm (UTC) (Link)
sorry, that was me.
eyelid From: eyelid Date: October 10th, 2006 10:26 pm (UTC) (Link)
I'll do the crying for you. Seriously. I so much know how it is that I'm welling up right now. I'm sorry for both of us.

I was thinking of this on Yom Kippur. It is true that I have things I have done wrong, and need to be forgiven for. But there are some things I feel G-d needs to seek forgiveness for as well. Sometimes it is hard to be humble before G-d when things are unfair. At least for me.

I hate that these things are happening to us. And I know how it is w/the waiting too, of course. The only good news is that miscarriage usually only extends your cycle about 1-2 weeks.
estherchaya From: estherchaya Date: October 10th, 2006 11:58 pm (UTC) (Link)
thanks. I appreciate your thoughts. And I'm very sorry you know about this intimately enough to be empathetic.

The only good news is that miscarriage usually only extends your cycle about 1-2 weeks.

Except in my case... I don't ovulate without medical intervention. Ever. So they'll wait until they're 100% sure that I really truly won't get a period naturally (hah!) before they'll even think about bring on a period to start a cycle, and even then, it's a useless cycle unless they also induce ovulation. So this probably means extending another two or three months, and THAT'S what's making me unbelievably angry.
eyelid From: eyelid Date: October 11th, 2006 01:44 pm (UTC) (Link)
Isn't that ironic - you'd think that the fact that you don't ovulate naturally would make it a SHORTER time for recovery because they'd just induce ovulation as early as practicable. Why are they bothering to wait when they KNOW you're anovulatory? What exactly is the point? Do they think that somehow for the first time you will magically ovulate?


So they'll wait until they're 100% sure that I really truly won't get a period naturally (hah!)

You know, if you're interested in taking matters into your own hands after a few weeks of not menstruating... you could get some BC (or some EC) and take it for a few days. BC and EC are progesterone; they'll convert your uterine lining to being secretory, and then if you stop taking them you'll menstruate. Just sayin'. I know it's nice and all to listen to doctors, but I really resent their stranglehold, myself.


So this probably means extending another two or three months, and THAT'S what's making me unbelievably angry.

Man, I know how that is. It's the waiting that is killer. Fuck the female cycle, in all its permutations.


And I'm very sorry you know about this intimately enough to be empathetic.

I've been thinking that possibly this whole year+ of infertility/miscarriage has been intended to teach me empathy. If so, I have now learned it, I'd like the lesson to end now please.
estherchaya From: estherchaya Date: October 11th, 2006 03:00 pm (UTC) (Link)
Taking matters into my own hands isn't so easy, though I do appreciate the sentiment. Having made it (barely) past my first trimester, my uterus is very enlarged, so before it could even get to a point that I can reasonably start a treatment cycle, it has to shrink back, which I know takes some time, but I have no way of knowing when that is on my own. The other problem is because of my migraine situation, it's bad juju for me to take any estragen-containing BC without a doctor's supervision.

To add insult to injury, my fertility doctor is on leave for three months, and I'm not sure why. I know I could get her to listen to me and move as quickly as is medically reasonable. But I have an appointment with a different doctor in the practice in two weeks. I have a lot of respect for him as a physician, so I'm hoping that he'll be able to take my whole history into account.

I do know that sometimes women with PCOS have a couple normal periods after a normal pregnancy, so it also is theoreticallly possible that I will get a couple normal periods, but I'm definitely not counting on it. I've never, it seemed, been on the good side of odds with fertility stuff. After all... something like 90 per cent of women who make it past 8 weeks, make it through their pregnancy without a miscarriage. The very sad thing is that when I heard that statistic, I took absolutely no solace in that. All I could think was, "well, I've never been on the good side of fertility odds."

Mostly, I'm trying to find the balanace between medical prudence and moving quickly. I don't want to jmp into anything without whatever answers I need from this miscarriage (e.g. the genetic testing from the fetus), but I also don't want to wait longer than I have to in order to move on to the next step. My OB told me he'd be as aggressive as I want him to be in finding a cause for the miscarriage, and I just want to make sure anything the fertility clinic would also want gets covered, so I'm not having to do this in two steps. I trust my OB, but I also know that sometimes REs and OBs look at things differently.

Mostly, I'm just pissed off and in limbo and, well, it sucks. Even when I'm okay, it sucks.
eyelid From: eyelid Date: October 11th, 2006 03:20 pm (UTC) (Link)
Mostly, I'm just pissed off and in limbo and, well, it sucks. Even when I'm okay, it sucks.

believe me, that is a sentiment shared by like every woman on the miscarriage boards.


After all... something like 90 per cent of women who make it past 8 weeks, make it through their pregnancy without a miscarriage.

Really? 8 weeks? I'm surprised. Probably about 1/2 of the women I know/have heard from who have had miscarriages had them later than 8 weeks. Of course that's just anecdotal.


Having made it (barely) past my first trimester, my uterus is very enlarged,

you could speed it up w/a d&c, I suppose. After a D&C the uterus shrinks back pretty fast. Of course that throws your cycle off in different ways, but.


The other problem is because of my migraine situation, it's bad juju for me to take any estragen-containing BC without a doctor's supervision.


I'm pretty sure there are BCPs that don't have estrogen in them. But I can certainly see why you wouldn't want to take the risk.
estherchaya From: estherchaya Date: October 11th, 2006 03:29 pm (UTC) (Link)
I did have a D&C. I didn't know that would speed up the process, so that's good to know. I just know that my doctor said I was too far along to pass everything on my own, particularly with the amount of pain I was in. He was absolutely correct that after the D&C I would feel exponentially better, at least on the pain scale.

As for the 8 week, statistic, that came from my fertility doctor. She almost never gives statistics/odds for this kind of thing, prefering to remember that every person's body is different and the statistics aren't always informative enough. She'll talk about odds given a particular set of circumstances, but rarely just gives flat out generic statistics, so I'm guessing she had a source to back it up, but it doesn't matter, I suppose. Odds of having a miscarriage past the first trimester (even barely) are ridiculously lower. But then, I've never been on the good side of odds.

Bleh. I'm not trying to belabor this really. I'm just trying to make a teeney bit of sense out of it.
real_bethy From: real_bethy Date: October 10th, 2006 10:43 pm (UTC) (Link)
I'm so glad that you are continuing to stay strong! I hope that G-d provides the answers you need and that you have a full and speedy recovery in body and spirit.
estherchaya From: estherchaya Date: October 12th, 2006 06:11 pm (UTC) (Link)
I don't know that I believe that G-d will provide me answers I need, but I hope my doctors will provide some answers I want. And if not... we'll just move on.
real_bethy From: real_bethy Date: October 12th, 2006 09:25 pm (UTC) (Link)
Just as long as you can keep on truckin'...that's the important thing.
indigodove From: indigodove Date: October 11th, 2006 12:28 am (UTC) (Link)
I'm glad you saw your baby on the ultrasound. You & Seth are in my thoughts today.
estherchaya From: estherchaya Date: October 12th, 2006 06:12 pm (UTC) (Link)
In retrospect, I'm glad too... I guess I never actually believed I would see a (seemingly) healthy baby in my ultrasound. I'm pretty glad I got to see it at least once.
fheyd From: fheyd Date: October 11th, 2006 12:41 am (UTC) (Link)
I didn't even manage to say congratulations before i had to say i'm so sorry. But once is indeed enough, more than enough.

*HUGS*
estherchaya From: estherchaya Date: October 11th, 2006 03:02 pm (UTC) (Link)
Thanks. I tried to call you to tell you the *good* part of the news a while ago, so that you wouldn't read about it on LJ, but I never seem to catch you at home. I'm sorry that I haven't been able to connect with you personally.

*hugs*
mortuus From: mortuus Date: October 11th, 2006 01:05 am (UTC) (Link)
I'm so sorry. *hugs*
estherchaya From: estherchaya Date: October 12th, 2006 06:13 pm (UTC) (Link)
Thanks, I appreciate it.
hopeness From: hopeness Date: October 11th, 2006 02:27 am (UTC) (Link)
I'm so sorry. I've been thinking about you a lot and then to see this post is just heartbreaking.

Once is more than enough, really, but hopefully you will be able to move forward.

Be well.
estherchaya From: estherchaya Date: October 12th, 2006 06:15 pm (UTC) (Link)
I know I'll be able to move forward; right now the sitting and waiting around for the appointments which will help me formulate the plan for moving forward is agonizing. I'd much rather just be doing something.
mindycl From: mindycl Date: October 11th, 2006 03:08 am (UTC) (Link)
i hope you get the full testing done beofre you cycle again. please, please - dont go thru the agony of another cycle without making sure you dont hav some kind of miscarriage issue. a miscrriage at this point - if youre beyond 10 weeks - might be of a clotting nature. please get blood tests for all blood clotting disorders beore putting yourself through this again...
estherchaya From: estherchaya Date: October 11th, 2006 03:17 pm (UTC) (Link)
Because I had a TIA (mini stroke) when I was 23, I was given a battery of tests to check for a large variety of clotting disorders, but I don't have any (this is, of course, a good thing). I'm not planning to dive straight into an IVF cycle tomorrow (they wouldn't let me, after all), but I'm also not going to wait any longer than is medically necessary. That will still allow enough time for the genetic testing on the fetus to be completed, and possibly to check for any uterine abnormalities (which I still find unlikely, since that was checked at the start of this whole fertility testing thing, but still not a bad thing to look at regardless).

Meanwhile, I'm going to trust that my OB and my RE's office can mutually figure out the best course of action, and I'll do my best to stay as educated and on top of things as I can.
ichur72 From: ichur72 Date: October 11th, 2006 03:41 am (UTC) (Link)
No words, really, just virtual hugs.

I'm glad you're feeling like you'll be OK. Still, it kept occurring to me today how miserably unfair this is.
estherchaya From: estherchaya Date: October 12th, 2006 06:17 pm (UTC) (Link)
It IS miserably unfair. And I'm not going to say I haven't spent a whole lot of time sobbing in the past few days. But I do know I'll be okay. I know eventually I won't feel like I can't breathe. I know eventually, this won't be the first thing I think of when I wake up in the morning or the last thing I think of when I fall asleep at night.

Thanks for your comfort. It means a lot.
osewalrus From: osewalrus Date: October 11th, 2006 04:24 pm (UTC) (Link)
I am sorry for you and Seth. And I am sad in my own right. I was looking forward to you two improving the Jewish gene pool.

You know we are here for you, even if you are o.k. While I am not as persistent as Sherry is at trying to help people against their will :), I can't help but think that there is something we can do to help out directly. If nothing else, you can send us Julian if you want some quiet time over the chag.
estherchaya From: estherchaya Date: October 12th, 2006 06:19 pm (UTC) (Link)
Thanks. We're doing okay. Hopefully, someday we'll be able to help you out with that gene pool improvement project you've got going. Just, apparently, not in April.

On the bright side, not that I'm sure we will be able to swing it financially, it looks like maybe we'll be free to go to Maine. ;)
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